It has seemed to me that a database is in order, which tracks the prophesies of every supposed prophet. The Deuteronomy 18:22 standard gives me a pretty clear notion that we should be tracking these things. Also, it seems to me at this time that we should have a pretty clear notion of when a person is doing 'astrology speak,' or things built on confirmation bias, or the Barnum Effect. I notice a lot of 'prophecy' is so bland and general as to be mostly useless. I would like for prophets to be put on record so their words can we weighed, or better, discerned.
Even so, I find myself really not appreciating the primary voices that rise to the top in criticizing false prophets. I have watched a few of these videos. They are often from people who are outright cessationist, which is a position I do not think is biblically tenable. Moreover, they often seem to lack discernment of weighing a prophet's words against speaking to their hearts, assuming bad motives, or simply being as uncharitable as possible in interpreting a prophet's words. That isn't helpful.
We almost certainly need prophecies, signs, and wonders. We just need them to be real. The foundation upon which we build matters. I notice a lot of Christians aren't particularly concerned about the veracity of any given miracle or prophecy. To them, it is more about an aesthetic that is pretty much unfalsifiable. For myriad reasons, I think that sets the church up for failure in the long run. Anyway, excellent insights, as always, Dr. Watson. Your counsel here is needed in the world today!
For many years I thought that such a database would be helpful. Now I'm not so sure. The proportion of false to true of latter-day prophecy in front of the general public, is enormously bent towards the false, which is a fulfillment of that which Christ the Lord said would occur. I think there is a useful specific corrolary to this, but am not yet sure I know what it is. I do note that God is neither equalitarian nor uniformitarian towards His creations.
Again, Dr Watson, I believe this timely exhortation is spot on. If one is a continuationist, then the gift of spiritual discernment is definitely an essential. The other option is to become a cessationist and throw the baby out with the bath water. In my opinion, even without the gift of spiritual discernment, I believe that merely seeing if said prophecy lines up with Scripture and if completed , it somehow brings glory to God, then I would think it it’s likely true. Being a continuationist myself, I believe there’s another area where there’s a strong need for this gift, and that being the occasion of attempting to deal with someone who might be under the influence of the demonic. I believe the reason that many believers are cessationist is due to the actions of many charlatans out there who’ve fleeced the faithful in order to become wealthy and famous. They’ve given the charismatic/ Pentecostals a bad image.
There is so much noise today with prophets and prophesies that discernment is absolutely needed. I heard someone about a month ago that said if you question it, apply the fruits of the spirit to the prophecy, it helps keep the rotten ones at bay.
I'm not sure it's doable with every prophecy, but it does help.
Love that you reminded us that prophecy is not always or even often a future prediction, but a way for growth in the body.
Ironically, I believe the majority of "false prophets" are actually people with the gift of discerning spirits who mistakenly believe they are prophets. The business of prophets is not primarily to announce beforehand what God is going to do (though that is occasionally the case), but to speak God's words to His people—be they of comfort, instruction, rebuke, or encouragement—so that we may know the truth and be equipped to do His will.
People who can discern the spirits, in particular the spirits driving historical events, can often guess with surprising accuracy what God is about to do, reasoning from God's past actions in similar circumstances as recorded in Scripture. But guesses are still guesses. They are not the guidance so many are craving right now.
It seems to me that the gift of discernment is primarily intended to shield us from error, rather than to provide direction for the future. All too often, Christians join causes or jump on bandwagons because they share the same moral compass and desire the same goal, but their spiritual compasses are completely misaligned. All issues related to "justice" are especially fraught, because "concern for the marginalized" can easily mask a desire to restrain, punish, or even destroy the wicked rather than to lead them to repentance through patient suffering. We whitewash our hatred of sinners with love for the sinned-against, and completely forget that our anger does not produce the righteousness of God.
We are in dire need, not of prophets, but of people who can prevent us from falling into such factionalism (always with the best of intentions aimed at the worthiest outcomes!) and destroying the oneness that is ours in Christ.
Great article. Although i feel significantly convicted by this given that i have been such a fan/proponent of Mike Bickle's teaching over the span of decades. Still experiencing cognitive dissonance over that still unfolding scandal.
eh - I'm an independent, politically and a theological conservative. your false equivalency between blatant false prophecy about DT getting paired with social justice is a little off-putting. one is clearly false (easy to discern, no?) and one has hints of Amos, et. al. (not so easy) they aren't even similar in scope or biblical witness.
then maybe you need to be more specific (like the DT prophecies)? yeah the word social justice seems to be loaded, but I hear concerns for the poor, oppression through power, the dignity of all created in God's image, the call to care for the widow, the orphan and the immigrant
Of course, I didn't say that all social justice prophetic rhetoric was false, so let's be clear about that. But if you want specific examples, removing the sexual organs or breasts from children in the name of "social justice" is evil. It we say we are being "prophetic" when we do this, we are lying.
It has seemed to me that a database is in order, which tracks the prophesies of every supposed prophet. The Deuteronomy 18:22 standard gives me a pretty clear notion that we should be tracking these things. Also, it seems to me at this time that we should have a pretty clear notion of when a person is doing 'astrology speak,' or things built on confirmation bias, or the Barnum Effect. I notice a lot of 'prophecy' is so bland and general as to be mostly useless. I would like for prophets to be put on record so their words can we weighed, or better, discerned.
Even so, I find myself really not appreciating the primary voices that rise to the top in criticizing false prophets. I have watched a few of these videos. They are often from people who are outright cessationist, which is a position I do not think is biblically tenable. Moreover, they often seem to lack discernment of weighing a prophet's words against speaking to their hearts, assuming bad motives, or simply being as uncharitable as possible in interpreting a prophet's words. That isn't helpful.
We almost certainly need prophecies, signs, and wonders. We just need them to be real. The foundation upon which we build matters. I notice a lot of Christians aren't particularly concerned about the veracity of any given miracle or prophecy. To them, it is more about an aesthetic that is pretty much unfalsifiable. For myriad reasons, I think that sets the church up for failure in the long run. Anyway, excellent insights, as always, Dr. Watson. Your counsel here is needed in the world today!
For many years I thought that such a database would be helpful. Now I'm not so sure. The proportion of false to true of latter-day prophecy in front of the general public, is enormously bent towards the false, which is a fulfillment of that which Christ the Lord said would occur. I think there is a useful specific corrolary to this, but am not yet sure I know what it is. I do note that God is neither equalitarian nor uniformitarian towards His creations.
Again, Dr Watson, I believe this timely exhortation is spot on. If one is a continuationist, then the gift of spiritual discernment is definitely an essential. The other option is to become a cessationist and throw the baby out with the bath water. In my opinion, even without the gift of spiritual discernment, I believe that merely seeing if said prophecy lines up with Scripture and if completed , it somehow brings glory to God, then I would think it it’s likely true. Being a continuationist myself, I believe there’s another area where there’s a strong need for this gift, and that being the occasion of attempting to deal with someone who might be under the influence of the demonic. I believe the reason that many believers are cessationist is due to the actions of many charlatans out there who’ve fleeced the faithful in order to become wealthy and famous. They’ve given the charismatic/ Pentecostals a bad image.
There is so much noise today with prophets and prophesies that discernment is absolutely needed. I heard someone about a month ago that said if you question it, apply the fruits of the spirit to the prophecy, it helps keep the rotten ones at bay.
I'm not sure it's doable with every prophecy, but it does help.
Love that you reminded us that prophecy is not always or even often a future prediction, but a way for growth in the body.
Ironically, I believe the majority of "false prophets" are actually people with the gift of discerning spirits who mistakenly believe they are prophets. The business of prophets is not primarily to announce beforehand what God is going to do (though that is occasionally the case), but to speak God's words to His people—be they of comfort, instruction, rebuke, or encouragement—so that we may know the truth and be equipped to do His will.
People who can discern the spirits, in particular the spirits driving historical events, can often guess with surprising accuracy what God is about to do, reasoning from God's past actions in similar circumstances as recorded in Scripture. But guesses are still guesses. They are not the guidance so many are craving right now.
It seems to me that the gift of discernment is primarily intended to shield us from error, rather than to provide direction for the future. All too often, Christians join causes or jump on bandwagons because they share the same moral compass and desire the same goal, but their spiritual compasses are completely misaligned. All issues related to "justice" are especially fraught, because "concern for the marginalized" can easily mask a desire to restrain, punish, or even destroy the wicked rather than to lead them to repentance through patient suffering. We whitewash our hatred of sinners with love for the sinned-against, and completely forget that our anger does not produce the righteousness of God.
We are in dire need, not of prophets, but of people who can prevent us from falling into such factionalism (always with the best of intentions aimed at the worthiest outcomes!) and destroying the oneness that is ours in Christ.
thank you. I honestly never heard that as a prophetic witness. maybe a "justice" issue.
Very good words, thanks David.
You do say with love, brother :-)
Great article. Although i feel significantly convicted by this given that i have been such a fan/proponent of Mike Bickle's teaching over the span of decades. Still experiencing cognitive dissonance over that still unfolding scandal.
eh - I'm an independent, politically and a theological conservative. your false equivalency between blatant false prophecy about DT getting paired with social justice is a little off-putting. one is clearly false (easy to discern, no?) and one has hints of Amos, et. al. (not so easy) they aren't even similar in scope or biblical witness.
I disagree completely. It is possible to call good evil and evil good in the name of "social justice." Invoking Amos doesn't get one off the hook.
then maybe you need to be more specific (like the DT prophecies)? yeah the word social justice seems to be loaded, but I hear concerns for the poor, oppression through power, the dignity of all created in God's image, the call to care for the widow, the orphan and the immigrant
Of course, I didn't say that all social justice prophetic rhetoric was false, so let's be clear about that. But if you want specific examples, removing the sexual organs or breasts from children in the name of "social justice" is evil. It we say we are being "prophetic" when we do this, we are lying.
guess we have our own ideas when we hear words like prophet and justice. (half the battle, eh? starting from the same common point)
Is it being correct to apply again the Amos 2:4-5. to current Isael? Or is the Political Geographic Israel of the present not the Israel of Scripture?
Is this not being antisemitic.
If I speak against the sins of modern Israel, am I being antisemitic?
Help my confusion.
I don't think it's necessarily antisemitic to criticize Israel's policies. No nation is above been called to account for its sins.